Yesterday, I heard the US tariffs went into effect, and Canada has retaliated by putting similar tariffs against the US. Canada's leader Justin Trudeau made a speech yesterday talking about this:

https://youtu.be/wz_42pckM7w?si=tpa8SbWjo9L5pEIN

The US tariffs would more than likely make products from those countries more expensive to US citizens, and the retaliatory tariffs from those countries will also make it harder for US companies to export/sell to those countries, since the prices in those countries will be higher. With tariffs going both ways now, the economies and citizens in both countries will be hurt via higher prices. I've also heard that Mexico will respond with 25% tariffs against the US, as has China.

Trump's tariffs were mainly retaliatory about fentanyl policies. In his speech yesterday, Justin Trudeu said they've already seen a dramatic reduction in the amount of fentanyl crossing the border, as they've seized a lot more fentanyl in the last month - so supposedly, Canada is already doing their part.

Is hurting the economy and making things more expensive what Trump wanted? Since Trump is a business person, I'd think he'd have a good sense of the financial effects of things, so I'd have to think he would have expected this to happen. I didn't vote for Trump (didn't vote for Kamala either), but I was still hoping for some positive change when Trump came into office. So far, I'm seeing prbable negative change with these tariffs, and I'm worried.

Nightfox

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Is hurting the economy and making things more expensive what Trump
wanted? Since Trump is a business person, I'd think he'd have a good sense of the financial effects of things, so I'd have to think he would have expected this to happen. I didn't vote for Trump (didn't vote for Kamala either), but I was still hoping for some positive change when
Trump came into office. So far, I'm seeing prbable negative change with these tariffs, and I'm worried.

No. Trump is attempting to right wrongs that have already been in place for decades - from VAT taxes across the EU to 100% vehicle tariffs from India, duties charged and US products not being viable in other friendly countries - its insane; it has been insane for decades and with the US being the superpower, we are the ones who will benefit when other countries MUST change.

Trudeau stated that 'Trump is doing this to hurt the Canadian economy' - while thats not true, it certainly WILL hurt the Canadian economy... much more than it will in America - and thats the point. Since countries refused to remove THEIR tariffs/taxes/fees, Trump is playing poker while holding a royal flush. Will we feel it? Yes. Will it make change that might vastly improve American business and import? THATs what Trump is doing... and I, and a lot of very intelligent strategists, lawyers and economists think so too.

We are coming together as a country and forcing the removal of historical fiscal raping of the US citizens.

Trump is making it so that large industry is moving their investments here; there have been many investments already, from Apple ($500B) to OpenAI ($500B) to the Tawainese chip company ($200B) and several others... If we bring all this technology to the US, its citizens will reap the rewards of their development, implementation, staffing, production and presence - its going to financially benefit [hundreds of] thousands of Americans.

How could reciprocal tariffs NOT be the right way to do things? If EU countries VAT our exports at 15%, America should do the same to them - we import WAY more than these countries... AND, we have the most energy [Drill baby drill!] to export; in the end, I'm hoping we have no [or low] tariffs because these other countries are much more scared of our tariffs.

Trudeau said, to Americans 'Your government has done this to you'... right - the true statement is '[The American] Our government is doing this to Canada'... and I stand by it; very simple way to end them - tariff/tax/duty us at the percentage you want us to tariff/tax/duty you.

Americans, over the past 40 years, have paid more and more and more of their income to finance this disgusting, fat, bloated woke government. I don't want to doso anymore; I know you don't agree, but I really think Trump has a master plan and is going to execute more than anyone in the country ever thought he COULD. He's running, and I don't think he'll slow down until 11:59PM on Jan 20 2029.

We are going to build the AI superpower of the world - and the new investments are needed to get ahead of China and other power countries; we're going to build in America - we're going to have furniture that lasts 30 years again, tech that is cutting edge and made in America, and we're going to demand that the rest of the world gives us a fair shake.

This POTUS is doing more than any in history, right now; I understand that would be jarring if I didn't agree, but at least someone's working for the American people - just settle down, its gonna be alright.



|07p|15AULIE|1142|07o
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(...) I really think
Trump has a master plan and is going to execute more than anyone in the country ever thought he COULD. He's running, and I don't think he'll
slow down until 11:59PM on Jan 20 2029.

Time will show, but it definitively look like gambling a lot.
Gambling and abusing the world we all knew for decades sure.

All you don't calculate in is that there are counter powers and as much as it is difficult to abandon many business and alliance relations with US in the shor term. In the long term you'll be internationally alone.

That's the feeling you guys don't know yet and may be tricky to swallow.

Also all that investment most likely won't work if you don't import another army of Indian programmers and CEOs ;) kind of contrary to all the immigration politics stated today ;)

I'm far away, and your biggest "success" is that I stopped taking care or hoping America can be an international partner and I'm more about to support we all should eventually build counter-US alliance in the remaining part of the west.

Happy to sell cheaper cars from Asia and EU to Canadians, by the way. Happy to kick off US army from the north if we all mobilize better. It'd be funny to finally see the real face of Uncle Sam once more time... like the one Native Americans felt 150 years ago when they just wanted to continue as it is without any harm to any other.

I like you Paulie, but when one rereads what you say, all is seen is general accusations without details, proof points, and data. That's typical to populists you're so gently buying. And try to observe.. among common people they are attractive only to the people who struggle. Those are also the people Elon names as parasites.

Those who don't struggle don't give a shit and just mobilize counter measures.

World will be fun for sure. No less dangerous regardless of any peace plan tyrants impose.

cheers.

-h1

... Xerox Alto was the thing. Anything after we use is just a mere copy.

Trump's tariffs were mainly retaliatory about fentanyl policies. In his

peech

yesterday, Justin Trudeu said they've already seen a dramatic reduction in

he

amount of fentanyl crossing the border, as they've seized a lot more fentanyl in the last month - so supposedly, Canada is already doing their part.

In the case of Canada, "fentanyl" was a smoke screen. Canada stops much
more coming *into* Canada than we have coming *from* Canada.

Is hurting the economy and making things more expensive what Trump wanted? Since Trump is a business person, I'd think he'd have a good sense of the financial effects of things, so I'd have to think he would have expected this to happen. I didn't vote for Trump (didn't vote for Kamala either), but I

as

still hoping for some positive change when Trump came into office. So far,

'

seeing prbable negative change with these tariffs, and I'm worried.

Same.


* SLMR 2.1a * */ <==-- Tribble with a lightsaber
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Re: US tariff retaliation
By: Nightfox to All on Wed Mar 05 2025 12:51 pm

when Trump came into office. So far, I'm seeing prbable negative change with these
tariffs, and I'm worried.

Nightfox

I did vote for Trump knowing that he was half full of BS. From what I have read, and only half believe, Canada has been putting tarrifs (extremely high) on goods for a long time.
It doesn't matter, with Trump you know its going to be a Sh!t Show. And mark my words, any savings DOGE comes up with will be sent to Israel. And if you do your due dilligence about the 5K doge checks, you will realize that they are for Tax PAYERS, if you got a refund, you are not a tax payer in their eyes.

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Time will show, but it definitively look like gambling a lot.
Gambling and abusing the world we all knew for decades sure.

Well, today the tariffs on Mexico and Canada were paused; my question to citizens of other countries are why is it OK for America to be taxed/tariffed/dutied and we shouldn't impose [generally] reciprocal tariffs? I agree - we should have free trade; but it isn't free trade if Americans [because thats who are paying AND suffering not being able to export] suffer because of tarrifs, VATs and other fees.

We can agree more than we don't; lets have proper free trade. I think thats why Trump feels like tariffs is the vehicle he can use. If nothing changes, I'm happy that he's using ANY vehicle. The American government should be American first. Just like your govt should be your people first.

All you don't calculate in is that there are counter powers and as much
as it is difficult to abandon many business and alliance relations with
US in the shor term. In the long term you'll be internationally alone.

No we won't - thats kind of my point; we WON'T be alone; we're the biggest importer that it vital to the worlds exports. We just want a fair shake so that we can produce, export and trade like we did pre-WWII.

We won't GET to those long term issues, because countries ARE going to make changes. [Possibly China excluded - but America would be well served with less junk, and tech being produced HERE...] I hear you - but I don't think we'll GET there - I think Trump knows what needs to be done and is going to create change so that America/Americans aren't paying a vig to play in world trade while being the richest consumers in the world...

He's going to force change - that change doesn't have to hurt YOU, so long as 'your' governments agree to stop forcing Americans to pay to trade.

Also all that investment most likely won't work if you don't import another army of Indian programmers and CEOs ;) kind of contrary to all
the immigration politics stated today ;)

No, companies will simply stop exporting jobs and Americans will take up the ranks. The one fact that stands is that dozens of large investments are, and will, flood the United States - this is a great thing for Americans and it doesn't hurt other countries. [Most of] These are American companies, why MUST they benefit other countries? He's leveling the playing field and big business is responding BEFORE countries - thats how it always works...

And, I think Honda announced a new plant in Indiana.. and the Taiwan chip company coming here - these are big events. Just examples of how Trumps plan is already working for us.

I'm far away, and your biggest "success" is that I stopped taking care or hoping America can be an international partner and I'm more about to support we all should eventually build counter-US alliance in the remaining part of the west.

China+Russia - this is the only thing that could come close to US as far as military; that is simply a fact.

Happy to sell cheaper cars from Asia and EU to Canadians, by the way.

Sure, but you should allow American companies to sell their warez too - if the cost is too high you just won't buy... but to tax over 100% [Australia] and make it so Ford, GM, etc CAN'T sell - thats BS. BS thats been going on for decades.

I like you Paulie, but when one rereads what you say, all is seen is general accusations without details, proof points, and data.

I like you too. And I understand we disagree - but we offer plenty of facts; you don't believe them so its more a disagreement IMO. As mentioned before, time will tell - America deserves to level the playing field. [OR, stop sending our tax $$ across the damned WORLD - its our $$!]

Cheers..



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I did vote for Trump knowing that he was half full of BS. From what I
have read, and only half believe, Canada has been putting tarrifs (extremely high) on goods for a long time.

A gallon of milk costs $8-9 in Vancouver... I think the US has something like a 160B deficit in trade - they won't let American farmers export goods, but want us to buy 160B... I think we're going to either see the American people be able to export to the world, or we're going to start keeping our dollars right here. Either way...

It doesn't matter, with Trump you know its going to be a Sh!t Show. And mark my words, any savings DOGE comes up with will be sent to Israel.

This is a great point - Americans don't want their money going ANYWHERE. I disagree, tho; its really awesome to hear an admin talking about a balanced budget... possibly NEXT YEAR?! [Stupid, too, because that should be a pre-requisite!] And I hope that savings begin to dwindle that 37T debt so that our children and grandchildren will still prosper when we're old and gone...

And if you do your due dilligence about the 5K doge checks, you will realize that they are for Tax PAYERS, if you got a refund, you are not a tax payer in their eyes. ---

We don't want or need a 5K check. We'll take it if they doso, because of course we will. So would you.



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Time will show, but it definitively look like gambling a lot. Gambling and abusing the world we all knew for decades sure.

Well, today the tariffs on Mexico and Canada were paused; my question to citizens of other countries are why is it OK for America to be taxed/tariffed/dutied and we shouldn't impose [generally] reciprocal tariffs? I agree - we should have free trade; but it isn't free trade if Americans [because thats who are paying AND suffering not being able to export] suffer because of tarrifs, VATs and other fees.

Yeah, I noted, he paused for the second time, if he pauses for the 3rd, he won't be treated seriously in these matters at all... that's perfect example of that gambling&abusing.

I'm of course pro free/fair trade agreements. That's least of my concerns.
All the domestic benefit you see you may gain is fair to dream of as the outcome.

I think Trump's biggest challenges (in Europe where I stand and which's point of view I kind of represent) are related to:

- his communication style is not bringing him friends nor trust anything happening in US today is stable and continual
- impact of his communication on general feeling about international security

This two connected are waking up Europe to accelerate its future without US dependency. The biggest surprise to Trump may be that he assumes EU,CA,UK,AU as his lesser partners have no power to oppose, which I believe may be false assumption.

Common folk just raises the emotional level of this conversation as it's clearly seen you're ran by fascists, and we're still allergic to fascism.

I also mind that China to secure its trade interests may eventually realize that they need to conquer seas. I mean literally. This is something that I believe none of us want and that's the final glue.

But that still works under condition that Russia is kept at leash. they continually need to, otherwise the only outcome I see is WWIII with you guys fighting on Pacific with Chinese and us in Europe with Russia.

History repeats with a different definition of Axis vs. Allies.

If things go wrong, I'm kind of expecting it in 10 years tbh.

With that on my mind, fair trade is not the most important principle, I personally fight for.

-h1

... Xerox Alto was the thing. Anything after we use is just a mere copy.

Re: Re: US tariff retaliation
By: paulie420 to Nightfox on Wed Mar 05 2025 04:12 pm

No. Trump is attempting to right wrongs that have already been in place for decades - from VAT taxes across the EU to 100% vehicle tariffs from India, duties charged and US products not being viable in other friendly countries - its insane; it has been insane for decades and with the US being the superpower, we are the ones who will benefit when other countries MUST change.

I'll admit I'm not entirely familiar with what has been in place already, but I've seen a lot of discussion about people worried the tariffs will increase prices of goods (which will hurt the US, as you said). Not so much discussion about righting wrongs.

more than it will in America - and thats the point. Since countries refused to remove THEIR tariffs/taxes/fees, Trump is playing poker while

Which existing tariffs, specifically? Canada has enacted NEW tariffs in response to the tariffs Trump has enacted, and Mexico has done the same.

Nightfox

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Re: Re: US tariff retaliation
By: hollowone to paulie420 on Thu Mar 06 2025 12:34 am

I'm far away, and your biggest "success" is that I stopped taking care or hoping America can be an international partner and I'm more about to support we all should eventually build counter-US alliance in the remaining part of the west.

Actually, it feels to me like Trump intends to become less linked economically to European powers. I think he believes the real threat to American hegemony is China.

European population has been very anti-american since the Bush days. Also, Europe is falling into irrelevancy quite fast (traditionally powerful European countries such as France and Germany are in deep political or economical crisis, and the growth of the Eurozone compared to pretty much everybody else in the last couple of years has been laughable). So I guess Trump, being an isolationist, believes he can play economical poker since Europe is in a visibly weakened position.

TBH it looks to me like Trump's strategy right now is to do what I do in life and keep a small bunch of real friends besides, rather than a large group of false friends. This is why Trump was seen endorsing Morrocco when it comes to the sovereignity of Ceuta and Melilla against the interests of Spain. It might look like a dick move until you realize Spain has been a mostly anti-american countryfor, dunno, more than 20 years...? and our President has declared himself to be the leader of the worldwide opposition to American policies... When you add that last time Spanish military did a coordinated operation with Americans, the Spanish ran away when the fighting started, it is no wonder America would get rid of our "support".

So, all in all, I don't think the tariff move is a fumble. I don't think it is good either - commerce is the ultimate pacification phenomena, so it should not be impedded.



--
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Re: Re: US tariff retaliation
By: paulie420 to hollowone on Thu Mar 06 2025 05:12 pm

No, companies will simply stop exporting jobs and Americans will take up the ranks.

I personally believe there is a pitfall with this plan, in that modern Western generations lack the work ethic and the preparation to actually succeed.

I mention this because the clinic I work has been cycling for months through cleaning and maintenance employees. So many of them had to go because they weren't getting any work done whatsoever. Boss here was adamant about hiring nationals only... finally we ended up hiring a bunch of South Americans, and those are the ones we are keeping because they actually get to work instead of sitting on their asses.

Thing is I see companies here with structural problems, that try to solve their issues by hiring more people... and the problems remain because the people is not solving them at all. We must be the most educated and prepared generation on paper, but you go out to the real world and it is full of software engineers who don't know what TLS is or that login credencials are supposed to be stored in a hashed form. In order to hire a competent person you either need to fish for somebody born in the 60s or earlier, or go for a foreigner.

I am a bit skeptical when Westerns plan to ditch fireginer workers and replace them with their own, when you consider a bit part of the reason why the locals are not getting hired is they don't solve issues.

Maybe it is different elsewhere. When I talk to foreigners that is the vibes I get, though.



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Re: Re: US tariff retaliation
By: hollowone to paulie420 on Fri Mar 07 2025 12:23 am

This two connected are waking up Europe to accelerate its future without US dependency. The biggest surprise to Trump may be that he assumes EU,CA,UK,AU as his lesser partners have no power to oppose, which I believe may be false assumption.

I personally suspect that is accounted for.

It is game theory. If European powers stop depending on the US then the US needs spend no resources securing them, which is a win. If they don't, then America is withdrawing itself from an unsustainable situation, which is also a win.


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I'll admit I'm not entirely familiar with what has been in place
already, but I've seen a lot of discussion about people worried the tariffs will increase prices of goods (which will hurt the US, as you said). Not so much discussion about righting wrongs.

Its the reason that the US buys all our goods from China and other places. Its why our furniture doesn't last 50 years anymore. Its the reason countries across oceans don't drive American made cars - but we're not supposed to do the same to them? Just doesn't make sense to me.

Which existing tariffs, specifically? Canada has enacted NEW tariffs in response to the tariffs Trump has enacted, and Mexico has done the same.

China's 15% tariff on US cars
India's 60-100% tariff on US vehicles
India's regulations and certification process that stifle American export China's 8-15% tariff on lumber
Mexico's tariff on steel, pork, cheese
Japan's unique safety and environmental standards that stop US vehicle imports South Korea's 8% on vehicles (but many US automobiles are exempt from this because of KORUS, Korea free trade agreement)
VAT taxes across Europe

... and people are making it sound like Trump is just pulling %s out of his ass, when he literally has a team of people giving recommendations for reciprocal tariffs; I agree that tariffs will have us paying more until we figure out supply changes, and that businesses (mine included!) who import are going to feel it on day 1 - but I think these countries are going to feel it much more and will be forced into lowering their tariffs. Thats the point - at which point American businesses will be able to export again.

Made in the U.S.A. used to mean something - and it will again.



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No, companies will simply stop exporting jobs and Americans will take u ranks.

I personally believe there is a pitfall with this plan, in that modern Western generations lack the work ethic and the preparation to actually succeed.

I can hear ya there, and you may be right - more problems that our grossly overgrown government have created. Since I was in high school, the public education system of our country has fallen to lows, attempted to erase history, explore anti-white values and become a breeding ground for LGBTQIA+ism.

I think they'll come into it tho, because what else is an entire generation of kids gonna do? Life will hit them in the face and they'll have to adjust... I agree, easier said than done. :P

I am a bit skeptical when Westerns plan to ditch fireginer workers and replace them with their own, when you consider a bit part of the reason why the locals are not getting hired is they don't solve issues.

I actually wish for immigration reform; I want a big green door [or portal... whatever] for any legal immigrant to come right on over. Non-criminal, educated [or serves a purpose needed in the US] and with the intent to learn english and become educated about America - but there shouldn't be such a thing as an illegal-immigran. If [any] LEO comes in contact with them they should start the deportation process immediately.

Also, I'd support undocumented, non-criminal, people in our country to be able to retro-actively start the immigration process. My point is, I'm not anti immigration - I'm just anti illegal immigration.


We're in a world of sh*t - and I'm just happy that someone is working so hard to create change. I don't agree with everything, but its 10x better than having a corpse in the office.



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Yeah, I noted, he paused for the second time, if he pauses for the 3rd,
he won't be treated seriously in these matters at all... that's perfect example of that gambling&abusing.

Whats important is the duscussions that are happening that we won't hear about until after... to be completely honest, I haven't heard of Canadian tariffs [or taxes/other BS thats the same thing..]; I do know that farmers don't export there, which is why milk costs double what it does in the US - but I also know that we don't know everything that goes on or causes the POTUS to take his positions. We [Americans] wouldn't want these things just because... I don't think Trump is doing that.

- his communication style is not bringing him friends nor trust anything happening in US today is stable and continual

I can agree with you here...

- impact of his communication on general feeling about international security

This two connected are waking up Europe to accelerate its future without US dependency. The biggest surprise to Trump may be that he assumes EU,CA,UK,AU as his lesser partners have no power to oppose, which I believe may be false assumption.

Europe should accelerate towards a future without US dependency - we're equals because we choose to be, not because the 5 you speak of could take on the US... and I don't think that would ever happen, anyway - however I hear your sentiment so I listen.

But that still works under condition that Russia is kept at leash. they

the only outcome I see is WWIII with you guys fighting on Pacific with ho> Chinese and us in Europe with Russia.

Right here. This is why I think Europe, Canada and Australia aren't leaving America's DMs... we're going to remain strong allies - your governments are just going to pay their fare share. [Until democrats come back and start flowing $$$ once again.

The bigger 'issue' is that I think the American people are very close to going republican for the next *12* years - if this first Trump year brings results, its almost guaranteed. [And if he finds success in his entire POTUS 47, its a done deal.]

I think the world is being too dramatic - we always are when our pocketbooks are involved - the US is going to make countries pay their fair share and allow our trade again, but we're friends. How can one defend not paying their bills and then expecting to 'borrow' more from the debtor? I just don't understand.



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Re: US tariff retaliation
By: Bogomips to Nightfox on Thu Mar 06 2025 12:25 pm

do your due dilligence about the 5K doge checks, you will realize that they are for Tax PAYERS, if you got a refund, you are not a tax payer in their eyes.

What?

If you got a refund, it is because you paid more in that your taxes were. Duhh...

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Re: US tariff retaliation
By: Bf2k+ to Bogomips on Fri Mar 07 2025 06:12 pm

are for Tax PAYERS, if you got a refund, you are not a tax payer in their > If you got a refund, it is because you paid more in that your taxes were.

This is correct. The government should actually be in FAVOR of those who got a refund because they gave the government an interest free loan over the course of the previous year. Anyone who gets a refund would be better off adjusting their withholding. The *best* scenario (for the taxpayer) is to come out as close to zero each year when filing. Of course, that's the worst scenario for the government because they are getting less "spending cash" throughout the course of the year.

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Re: Re: US tariff retaliation
By: paulie420 to Nightfox on Fri Mar 07 2025 03:38 pm

I'll admit I'm not entirely familiar with what has been in place

Its the reason that the US buys all our goods from China and other places.

Tariffs are the reasons we buy things from China and other places? I'm not quite sure I understand.

Which existing tariffs, specifically? Canada has enacted NEW tariffs in
response to the tariffs Trump has enacted, and Mexico has done the same.

China's 15% tariff on US cars
India's 60-100% tariff on US vehicles
India's regulations and certification process that stifle American export China's 8-15% tariff on lumber
Mexico's tariff on steel, pork, cheese
Japan's unique safety and environmental standards that stop US vehicle imports South Korea's 8% on vehicles (but many US automobiles are exempt from this because of KORUS, Korea free trade agreement) VAT taxes across Europe

My understanding is that Trump's new tariffs are only against Mexico, Canada, and China. If India, Japan, and South Korea have tariffs against the US, why don't we do the same to them?

Nightfox

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Re: US tariff retaliation
By: Nightfox to All on Wed Mar 05 2025 12:51:06

Trump's tariffs were mainly retaliatory about fentanyl policies. In his speech yesterday, Justin Trudeu said they've already seen a dramatic reduction in the amount of fentanyl crossing the border, as they've seized a lot more fentanyl in the last month - so supposedly, Canada is already doing their part.

I always thought it was up to the border guards at a countries border to stop bad things from entering, not the country they come from. Oh well, what do I know.

Mick Manning
..........
Central Ontario Remote Synchro
centralontarioremote.net:2323
<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>

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Re: US tariff retaliation
By: Mickey to Nightfox on Sun Mar 09 2025 08:04 pm

I always thought it was up to the border guards at a countries border to stop ad things from entering, not the country they come from. Oh well, what do I kno .

That's what I thought too, but I suppose if a country isn't doing much to stop bad things from going into another country, that could look bad for that country. In the US, I think there's an impression that there are a lot of drugs that come into the US from Mexico, and perhaps Trump's thought is that if they can help prevent drugs from leaving their country, that would be more effective than just the US border patrol dealing with it.

Nightfox

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My understanding is that Trump's new tariffs are only against Mexico, Canada, and China. If India, Japan, and South Korea have tariffs
against the US, why don't we do the same to them?

We're getting there - April 2nd...



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We're getting there - April 2nd...

Prank's Day - the Extended Edition :)

-h1

... Xerox Alto was the thing. Anything after we use is just a mere copy.

I think the world is being too dramatic - we always are when our pocketbooks are involved - the US is going to make countries pay their fair share and allow our trade again, but we're friends. How can one defend not paying their bills and then expecting to 'borrow' more from
the debtor? I just don't understand.

Time will show Paulie if current level of friendship may be maintained over the course of XXI century. We still have time to fix issues together, not against each other.

All I see is that who owes who what is highly subjective and pejorative argument in communication, not something carefully calculated among business partners.

And you guys.. who support Trump just simply hesitate to learn from history of similar events that have occurred already and ended up with WWII in the first half of last century, I still see we are heading toward another one. And I cannot give you guaranties we will be in that conflict together. Just logically speaking/thinking about potential outcomes.

One example for you to recognize regarding tariffs: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoot%E2%80%93Hawley_Tariff_Act

-h1

... Xerox Alto was the thing. Anything after we use is just a mere copy.

Re: Re: US tariff retaliation
By: paulie420 to Bogomips on Thu Mar 06 2025 05:21 pm

We don't want or need a 5K check. We'll take it if they doso, because of course we
will.
So would you.

Of course I would, and so would all the people with TDS.

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Re: Re: US tariff retaliation
By: paulie420 to Arelor on Fri Mar 07 2025 03:57 pm

I actually wish for immigration reform; I want a big green door [or portal...
whatever]
for any legal immigrant to come right on over. Non-criminal, educated [or serves a
purpose needed in the US] and with the intent to learn english and become educated
about
America - but there shouldn't be such a thing as an illegal-immigran. If [any] LEO
comes
in contact with them they should start the deportation process immediately.

I concur. I worked with a Mexican who came over illegaly. 10k usd it cost him. He had perfect credit an drove a brand new corvette.

Then he felt guilty and did the right thing. He became a legal citizen then Drove a Ram truck.

He sent his mother a washing machine and dryer and she hated it, and still chose to do her laundry on a rock at the stream.

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Re: US tariff retaliation
By: Bf2k+ to Bogomips on Fri Mar 07 2025 06:12 pm

Re: US tariff retaliation
By: Bogomips to Nightfox on Thu Mar 06 2025 12:25 pm

do your due dilligence about the 5K doge checks, you will realize that they are for
Tax PAYERS, if you got a refund, you are not a tax payer in their eyes.

What?

If you got a refund, it is because you paid more in that your taxes were. Duhh...

Like I said, do your due dillegence and research the issue. you will find that if you got a refund, they don't consider you a "tax PAYER", as far as receiving a DOGE refund check.

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Re: US tariff retaliation
By: Bogomips to Bf2k+ on Tue Mar 11 2025 11:43 am

Like I said, do your due dillegence and research the issue. you will find that if you got a refund, they don't consider you a "tax PAYER", as far as receiving a DOGE refund check.

that sounds like made up bullshit.
if you pay more into taxes than what you get back, you will get this check.

anyways, it's WAYYYYYYYY too soon to talk about this or think about it.

this is TDS territory.
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Re: US tariff retaliation
By: Bogomips to Bf2k+ on Tue Mar 11 2025 11:43 am

Like I said, do your due dillegence and research the issue. you will find that if you got a refund, they don't consider you a "tax PAYER", as far as receiving a DOGE refund check.

Sounds like bullshit to me, but I guess we'll see when and if the checks come out.

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Time will show Paulie if current level of friendship may be maintained over the course of XXI century. We still have time to fix issues
together, not against each other.

All I see is that who owes who what is highly subjective and pejorative argument in communication, not something carefully calculated among business partners.

What has happened over the last 50 years is that the world has leaned on the United States wealth, ever so slowly putting rules in place that take and borrow from Americans - and WE have been paying for it.

We're tired. We have tons of issues at HOME; the financial support should take care of our issues first, and then sure - we have no problem helping the world... but its been unfair over these decades; we are tired and taxed.

I literally can't understand how 'reciprocal tariffs', if applied correctly and fairly, don't make sense - or better yet, the EU can just 'pay up' but turning THEIRS down; then theres none from the US.

To say that Americans aren't being slowly taken advantage of just isn't a fair statements.

One example for you to recognize regarding tariffs: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoot%E2%80%93Hawley_Tariff_Act

Thanks, I will read up - however the Trump admin has shown the whys of what they're implementing;

https://www.whitehouse.gov/fact-sheets/2025/02/fact-sheet-president-donald-j-t rump-announces-fair-and-reciprocal-plan-on-trade/

https://www.whitehouse.gov/fact-sheets/2025/02/fact-sheet-president-donald-j-t rump-imposes-tariffs-on-imports-from-canada-mexico-and-china/

https://www.whitehouse.gov/fact-sheets/2025/03/fact-sheet-president-donald-j-t rump-proceeds-with-tariffs-on-imports-from-canada-and-mexico/

https://www.whitehouse.gov/fact-sheets/2025/02/fact-sheet-president-donald-j-t rump-restores-section-232-tariffs/

https://www.whitehouse.gov/fact-sheets/2025/03/fact-sheet-president-donald-j-t rump-adjusts-tariffs-on-canada-and-mexico-to-minimize-disruption-to-the-automo tive-industry/

Canada announces 25% tariffs on American electricity - Trump resonds with 50% tariffs on steel and metal - Canada cancels the 25% tariff - Trump does the same;

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cm2y811g1dgo

It's simple; we're going to use our power to force the removal of tariffs, taxes and fees that MANY countries have put on American export over several decades. That is a fact - and the sooner countries remove them, the sooner we will remove our new tariffs; HOW is that unfair H1?



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We don't want or need a 5K check. We'll take it if they doso, because o course we will. So would you.

Of course I would, and so would all the people with TDS.

Isn't the TDS freaking insane? I lost a partner over it - through nothing in my control... its crazy. Conversation and compromise is a baseline that is needed in this country - and I only feel it being stifled by one side of the coin.

... I align most w/ Chris Cuomo, to be honest - I used to be more a democrat, but over the years they lost me and I now question everything and have been pushing to voting for change. But what I like most about Chris is that he literally works with, talks to and listens to his opposition - and, he has been changing his ideals on many topics....



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What has happened over the last 50 years is that the world has leaned on the United States wealth, ever so slowly putting rules in place that
take and borrow from Americans - and WE have been paying for it.

No Paulie, You've built your wealth on top of WWII victory and global domination through American driven peace making and Cold War control.

You are not wealthy by the way at individual level, level of poverty in US is sometimes closer to 3rd world than anything what we know in Europe. Your economy is wealthiest, but it's more average wealthy Chinese today than Americans in what you'd call middle class, by percentage of the population.

Half of your problems would be solved if you managed wealth distribution better in your own country, without any international involvement

We're tired. We have tons of issues at HOME; the financial support
should take care of our issues first, and then sure - we have no problem helping the world... but its been unfair over these decades; we are
tired and taxed.

You're tired as forgive me my brutality, your grand parents and parents worked hard in post WWII world to build this empire and then Millenials and laters think everything is for granted just because you are Americans... and then alien work hard in your country to have better lives than many of you, just because they continually work hard. And many white, English-surnames Johnies are pissed off because they just want 100k a year being focused on self-realization and passions, not working hard and not even thinking about ground-work required to get back on the track... just whining and blaming others.

Shortly:
- regulate more yourself not others
- stop crying... get your shit together and find normal job, 100k will come. Canadians won't give it to you for free

cheers :)

-h1

... Xerox Alto was the thing. Anything after we use is just a mere copy.

Like I said, do your due dillegence and research the issue. you will find that if you got a refund, they don't consider you a "tax PAYER", as far as receiving a DOGE refund check.

Sounds like bullshit to me, but I guess we'll see when and if the checks come out.

At the rate they are cutting things, and people, that they then have to go
to court about, and then have to reinstate (and, with people, pay backpay) because they didn't take the time to research whether or not what they were doing was even legal, I strongly suspect those "checks" will be billing notices.


* SLMR 2.1a * "Everybody need reverse polarity."
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You're tired as forgive me my brutality, your grand parents and parents

orked

hard in post WWII world to build this empire and then Millenials and laters think everything is for granted just because you are Americans... and then alien work hard in your country to have better lives than many of you, just because they continually work hard. And many white, English-surnames Johnies are pissed off because they just want 100k a year being focused on self-realization and passions, not working hard and not even thinking about ground-work required to get back on the track... just whining and blaming others.

With the number of lazy-ass, disrespectful, bastard white kids I see around,
I am finding it difficult to disagree with most of this.

When I was in college 30+ years ago, it used to be the kids that identified
as "socialists" who would sit around planing their next move to "stick it
to the man" while the rest of us went about our work. I am sure those kids still exist, but now most of the ones I see doing it are the kids you used to expect to be the ones working. Mommy and Daddy (if he is still in the
picture) went soft on them and they have no discipline or motivation to do anything that they don't see as "fun."


* SLMR 2.1a * So many ancestors, so little time.
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Canada announces 25% tariffs on American electricity - Trump resonds with 50% tariffs on steel and metal - Canada cancels the 25% tariff - Trump does the same;

It's simple; we're going to use our power to force the removal of tariffs, taxes and fees that MANY countries have put on American export over several decades. That is a fact - and the sooner countries remove them, the sooner we will remove our new tariffs; HOW is that unfair H1?

The problem with this logic is that the electricity tariff in question
...or their recent tariffs on bourbon, appliances, etc... didn't exist until Trump initially put a new tariff on Canadian products.

If it works like you think it does, the country that would be cancelling
first would be the USA, and then Canada would respond by cancelling the retaliatory tariffs. Then we would be back to the existing trade agreement... you know, the one that Trump signed back during his first term, proclaiming it to be the best deal ever.


* SLMR 2.1a * Ted Kennedy's Bumper Sticker: My other car is underwater.
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Re: US tariff retaliation
By: Dumas Walker to BF2K+ on Wed Mar 12 2025 07:57 am

because they didn't take the time to research whether or not what they were doing was even legal, I strongly suspect those "checks" will be billing notices.

instead of reading the headlines go look up what they were cutting
and see if you have a problem about it. dont go on cnn. just go see
the actual stuff on the doge site. it's pretty informative and it's just text.

see if you have a problem with the stuff they are cutting.
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Re: US tariff retaliation
By: MRO to Bogomips on Tue Mar 11 2025 02:37 pm

that sounds like made up bullshit.
if you pay more into taxes than what you get back, you will get this check.

Call it what you want. But, if you look into it yourself you will find out.

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Re: US tariff retaliation
By: Bogomips to MRO on Wed Mar 12 2025 12:07 pm

Re: US tariff retaliation
By: MRO to Bogomips on Tue Mar 11 2025 02:37 pm

that sounds like made up bullshit.
if you pay more into taxes than what you get back, you will get this check.

Call it what you want. But, if you look into it yourself you will find out.

i did. shit isn't happening yet. everything is still vague.
if you pay taxes you get it back. that's what you will find if you look it up. we don't even know for sure that it's happening. why even talk about it?
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We're tired and taxed.

your grand parents and parents worked hard in post WWII world to build ho> this empire and then Millenials and further think everything is for ho> granted just because you are Americans...

While you might be right about a certain class of people in the US, there is a vast middle class like myself who have never taken a cent of democratic govt welfare or support. You're right, we ARE the 100k/yr SBA owners that are demanding to get rid of a vast majority of those govt subsidies - and for that we'll need to go back to the 1940 era of Made in the U.S.A so those govt sucking welfare recipients can get to work in the industry that democrats have pumped out to other countries over the decades...

WE are just fine - but I agree that our lowest class has learned to live off a whale of a government as their 'careers'... hoping that we can change that in the decades to come.

We'll see how it goes - first report card will be in 60ish days.



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If it works like you think it does, the country that would be cancelling first would be the USA, and then Canada would respond by cancelling the retaliatory tariffs. Then we would be back to the existing trade agreement... you know, the one that Trump signed back during his first term, proclaiming it to be the best deal ever.

I can agree with you more about Canada - its the one that I don't fully understand the logic behind, and I don't accept the fentanyl OR immigrant issue... Mexico needs to step up in that regard, but not Canada so much...

However, I'm very interested in seeing the rounds of reciprocal tariffs on other countries that DO tariff/vat/duty us very unfairly.

Again, I am not sold about the Canada front - there is SOME there; dairy, logging, etc - but I'd love to see more explanation from Trump here.



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instead of reading the headlines go look up what they were cutting
and see if you have a problem about it. dont go on cnn. just go see
the actual stuff on the doge site. it's pretty informative and it's just

ext

I don't watch CNN or go to the CNN website.

see if you have a problem with the stuff they are cutting.

I have issues with them cutting forest rangers, cutting critical IT infrastructure staff, firing veterans, and several other cuts they've made.

I know they have cut a bunch of jobs, then had to rehire a bunch of people, with backpay for days they didn't work. That is wasting money. I know
that Elon himself has claimed they "accidentally" fired people and "accidentally" cut funding for important research, like ebola. The time
wasted while these jobs and programs were in limbo wasted money.

I know that the courts are being tied up with cases about all the goofs
they've made, and that is wasting money.

I also know that they accidentally exposed a secret CIA facility. That it
was a "black site" was debunked, but it was a secret facility none the less.

Some of the "fraud" that DOGE has found has also been debunked, even though they still claim to have cut it.

If they wanted to *save* money, they'd have to start with forensic
accountants, certified fraud experts, and subject matter experts. That
team would go through and find all the crazy crap that really does need cutting, find all the fraud that needs prosecuting, and we'd have a lot
less stupid stuff happening.

Instead, Elon and a bunch of tech guys who know next to nothing about government or confidentiality, went it and did a bunch of CTRL-F
searches on key words, not understanding that some of those words and
acronyms means something else in government work. Since they don't
understand the data, they've messed up a lot. Yeah, they also found some
legit stuff, but even blind squirrels sometimes find nuts.

Based on their track record, as self reported by Musk, I would not trust DOGE to be properly reporting what they are up to anymore than I would trust MSNBC to be properly reporting what DOGE is up to.


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If it works like you think it does, the country that would be cancelling first would be the USA, and then Canada would respond by cancelling the retaliatory tariffs. Then we would be back to the existing trade agreement... you know, the one that Trump signed back during his first term, proclaiming it to be the best deal ever.

I can agree with you more about Canada - its the one that I don't fully understand the logic behind, and I don't accept the fentanyl OR immigrant issue... Mexico needs to step up in that regard, but not Canada so much...

Yeah, Mexico needed to step up regarding the border and apparently has.

However, I'm very interested in seeing the rounds of reciprocal tariffs on other countries that DO tariff/vat/duty us very unfairly.

China was the country I was expecting us to impose tariffs against, and the administration is working on that. Canada was not on my bingo card.


* SLMR 2.1a * My baby she wrote me a letter...
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Re: Re: US tariff retaliation
By: paulie420 to Bogomips on Tue Mar 11 2025 07:21 pm

control... its crazy. Conversation and compromise is a baseline that is need > in this country - and I only feel it being stifled by one side of the coin.

I have to disagree with the statement that it is being stiffled by (mostly, I hope you meant) just one side. I tend to align mostly libertarian, which my personal description means "conservative government, socially liberal". I was registered R for quite a while, but the shift to the extreme gained more and more momentum as the "Tea Party" with more and more Rs losing their freaking minds and eventually culminating (so far) in the MAGA movement, soured my stomach and I am now officially registered "N" (for No party affiliation).

Anyway, I say all of that to indicate that I look at both the "magats" and the "TDS" crowds as equal in number, equal in stupidity, and equal in bullheadedness with zero give-a-shit about the other side's arguments. This is where I disagree with the earlier statement, and it is my opinion that the stiffling of the conversation is being done equally by both sides of the coin. BUT - that coin is only a minority of Americans, and only a minority of their respective "sides". I think the vast number of Americans are more "moderate" with some "right-leaning" and some "left-leaning", but that the two extremes are now definitely the HUGE vocal minority.

... I align most w/ Chris Cuomo, to be honest - I used to be more a democrat > but over the years they lost me and I now question everything and have been

I like Chris - I also like to listen to Jon Stewart and Rachael Madow. My number one priorty when chosing who I continue listening to is well spoken, articulate arguments, whether I agree with them or not. I tend to agree the least with Madow, but she's at least extrememly smart and well spoken, and her arguments are valid, following most of the rules of logic and avoiding most falacies.

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Re: US tariff retaliation
By: Dumas Walker to MRO on Thu Mar 13 2025 10:31 am

instead of reading the headlines go look up what they were cutting
and see if you have a problem about it. dont go on cnn. just go see
the actual stuff on the doge site. it's pretty informative and it's just

ext

I don't watch CNN or go to the CNN website.

many are LIKE cnn, where they feed half truths and are designed to make
money and scare people.

I have issues with them cutting forest rangers, cutting critical IT infrastructure staff, firing veterans, and several other cuts they've made.

There can be state forrest rangers or federal forrest rangers. is there a need for FEDERAL forrest rangers? on top of that, forrest rangers don't even make that much money.

Regarding firing vets, they can get another job though their jobsite. its real easy to pickup jobs. most of these firings are probational employees which are new hires or transfers. they were probably in a position that was not needed.
They can get on their job site and get a better job most likely.

Hey shit happens. if you are in a job where it's not important, you get downsized. that's progress. do you just want them sitting in there doing nothing? that's what a lot of them do.

Some of the "fraud" that DOGE has found has also been debunked, even though they still claim to have cut it.

If they wanted to *save* money, they'd have to start with forensic accountants, certified fraud experts, and subject matter experts. That
DOGE to be properly reporting what they are up to anymore than I would trust MSNBC to be properly reporting what DOGE is up to.

it seems like you are just letting the headlines influence how you think about this. Our president has not even been in office that long. everything takes time and the things you are afraid of haven't really come into fruition.

I'm all for cutting down the govt and checking things out. our govt is out of control with spending. everything is very very convoluted. the govt is fucking nuts how it does things. I am not surprised there are errors during these cuts.

You didn't answer my quesion on if you checked out the dodge site as well.
you should just go check it out.

you should just stop worring. turn off the news. it's just there to make you scared and make money.
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Re: Re: US tariff retaliation
By: paulie420 to Arelor on Fri Mar 07 2025 03:57 pm

I personally believe there is a pitfall with this plan, in that modern Western generations lack the work ethic and the preparation to actually succeed.

I can hear ya there, and you may be right - more problems that our grossly overgrown government have created. Since I was in high school, the public education system of our country has fallen to lows, attempted to erase history, explore anti-white values and become a breeding ground for LGBTQIA+ism.

I think it is deeper than that. It trascends indentity politics.

I can think of many labels to apply to my school time. "Jail" is one. "Cult to Mediocrity" is another. See, the problem is that back in the 90s it was parents who were ok having mediocre kids who achieved mediocre results. With no preasure from home to become anything better, the small percentage of nerds who wanted to at least try was frowned upon from both their classmates and the teachers. I mean, if you are a lazy bumass, if the guy next seat is trying to get his homework done within schedule, he is somehow highlighting you are not, right?

And the problem there is parents trained their children to not give a flying fuck back then, and these children are now adults who don't give a flying fuck today. Therefore you have computer scientists in charge of development teams who don't know how git branches are merged because they don't give a flying fuck.

I don't consider myself very good at anything I do, but seriously, last time I was at a selection process for a job they took a bunch of candidates and put us to the test for half a month. First task they asked from us candidates was to set a Git repository. By the end of the selection process only 2 of us had created a repository with commits in it. The rest were sitting on their lazy asses because nobody gave a flying fuck about Git.

Man, I can't believe I am a grumpy old grandpa already. I am not even 40 yet.


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Re: US tariff retaliation
By: Nightfox to Mickey on Sun Mar 09 2025 06:11 pm

That's what I thought too, but I suppose if a country isn't doing much to stop bad things from going into another country, that could look bad for that country. In the US, I think there's an impression that there are a lot of drugs that come into the US from Mexico, and perhaps Trump's thought is that if they can help prevent drugs from leaving their country, that would be more effective than just the US border patrol dealing with it.

Well, for the most part a country not letting "bad stuff" pass through it on the way to another country is not a matter of image, it is a matter of practicality.

I mean, Morocco is badly impacted when drugs and gangs and whatever go up through it on their way to Europe. No King or Pripe Minister wants to deal with that crap in their country unless they are getting their cut. Morocco might use some of this as a political bargaining chip in international affairs (ie. "Give us a better tomato export deal or we might let more immigrants go up north!") but that is far from the default position.

Something similar happens with Mexico. Mexicans might complain that North Americans are racist, but you should see the low consideration Mexicans themselves have towards people from Guatemala trying to go north through Mexico.


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Re: Re: US tariff retaliation
By: paulie420 to hollowone on Tue Mar 11 2025 19:18:00

It's simple; we're going to use our power to force the removal of tariffs, taxes and fees that MANY countries have put on American export over several decades. That is a fact - and the sooner countries remove them, the sooner we will remove our new tariffs; HOW is that unfair H1?

Canada has had marketing boards for decades and they can be quite powerful, having alot of control with government. Beef, milk, and egg marketing boards come to mind. It causes the government to attach tarrifs to any incoming products in these catagories to control the prices up here. I believe we pay way more than you guys for these items.

I live in the country and get many of these items directly from the source. The Gov always say that foreign milk and eggs are inferior and think that is just plain bullshit. :-)

Mick Manning
..........
Central Ontario Remote Synchro
centralontarioremote.net:2323
<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>

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China was the country I was expecting us to impose tariffs against, and the administration is working on that. Canada was not on my bingo card.

From more of the talking points, they've focused on the 180B surplus that the US imports from Canada that Trump doesn't think we need...

I don't know how I feel about that seeing as Canada has always been our closest of ally, HOWEVER do you think a 180B surplus is something we should address in SOME way??

I do think Trump has at least brought our economy, immigration and jobs to better results than past POTUS's, so I give the benefit that he's implementing a plan - I just need the info to keep flowing...



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I have to disagree with the statement that it is being stiffled by (mostly, I hope you meant) just one side.

Anyway, I say all of that to indicate that I look at both the "magats"
and the "TDS" crowds as equal in number, equal in stupidity, and equal in bullheadedness with zero give-a-shit about the other side's arguments.

You sound like me, except I was more liberal previously and was pushed a bit to the right after Obama, and way more while enduring a failed Biden POTUS. [IMO, completely failed in every way from day 1.]

I HEAR your comparison about how the extremes of both sides, but in my experience [I live in Portland, OR - might be a part of it...], taking away the extremes, I have plenty of right-leaning friends that are more than willing to discuss, compromise and listen to the other side - but LITERALLY every single liberal in my ecosystem has completely shut down to ANYTHING other than aligning with every single bulletpoint of the liberal [woke] agenda.

I voted for Trump; and lost a long-term relationship and many many friends... they wouldn't even debate during and after Trump, but they've completely shut down since 11/5/24.



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